Internet Marketing and Advertising

[mbland]

I'd like to start a discussion on methods of successful internet advertising, and welcome input and lessons learned from others.

Re. internet advertising, I've been working with Bizrate, Froogle, and now getting ready to try Pricegrabber. Any experience and lessons learned on these or other advertising channels would be appreciated.

For starters, I recommend Froogle - it's completely free to list all of your products there, including pictures. I can't believe that it's going to remain free for much longer.

I tried Bizrate, with some success, but be warned: your advertising dollars get burned fast - be sure to keep your bids low enough to take into consideration that only a small percentage of the leads (clicks) turn into sales.

I have also experimented with Google AdWords. This too takes some experimentation and careful selection of keywords and pay per click price.

I'm intrigued by Pricegrabber (which feeds onlineshopping.about.com) since it's a pay per SALE. $1 plus about 4.5% per sale.

Regards,
Melissa

[zuzus_garden]

Hi Melissa,

Pay-per-click & pay for positioning advertising concerns me.

The original purpose of the internet was to share information and return the most relevant sites first.

What is happening to the integrity of the internet when businesses can pay their way to a top position and force more relevant sites down the list?

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/10194661.htm

I'm open to listen and learn, but haven't heard any reason why I should participate in this yet.

Just my 2 cents,
Zuzu

[Kathy Ann]

Here's my tuppence on the matter:

Apparently Froogle is importing your Bizrate feedback for use on their site. Nice perk!

Another way to maximize Froogle is to list on Auctionfire. Your item and its picture immediately go on Froogle and you don't have to remember to upload to Froogle every month, if you tell Auctionfire to just keep relisting. Just remember to hold the item or be ready to make one quick, until you cancel your Auctionfire listing, in case they start to get bidders over there. Auctionfire has no fees, you can link to your website - or if you haven't yet got a website, this will give your items a web presence til you get one going.

Now to Google. One plus, besides having a featured listing, is that it will tell you which of your keywords was used the most by shoppers. This is good imformation for writing your site content and also for your Froogle listing, since you only get to pick one description for your things. One minus - they don't give you a heads-up before taking money from your account. Since I use a special account that has just enough money in it for my online stuff, I am very uncomfortable with not knowing when & how much they will take. Supposedly you can check up on it yourself and count every 30 days, but who has the time? Also , the cpc (cost per click) is a really strange formula and it makes me suspicious, justified or not. I'd appreciate any insights on this!

For my most popular product line, there is a question on the order form that asks where they found us. Most of them type "Google". Quite a few type "Yahoo." Some say they found me on Ebay. I am starting to get a few that say "Froogle." I got one recently that said "Alpha Search".

A word to the wise: Keep track of every web page you create and every service you list on. I recently got an order for Christmas Stockings, which I don't even sell anymore. (Too many $4.00 slave labor stockings for sale at Big Lots!:mad: )I had changed the page, but not the order form. The customer found a cached page and got to the order form from there. Even when old order forms are inaccessible, I sometimes get emails begging for items that were discontinued long ago, like flannel lingerie and handmade paper. (If you have seen my other posts, you know that I started out offering about a dozen product lines. Now it's just the 3 things that got the most orders and that I enjoy doing!)Your pages will stay in cache files for years.

[zuzus_garden]

It's just me again. :)

I hope this forum thread continues to grow with personal experience, insight and suggestions, but if you need help fast, I found a forum that I believe will be very helpful:

http://www.searchengineforums.com/apps/searchengine.forums

Forum topics include SEO, specific search engine Q&A, internet marketing strategies, web site design, eBusiness topics, web site reviews...in other words, everything a newbie needs help with, visited by professionals and newbies who post frequently.

Hope you find it helpful too.
Zuzu

[Kathy Ann]

By the way Zu, on the pay-per-click issue - on Google Adwords or Featured, the paid ads are always seperated from the search engine ads. Their search engine still goes by "most popular". In my experience, my Google Adwords didn't bump me up any closer to the top on the search engine.

[zuzus_garden]

Hi Kathy Ann,

Yup. The article that I referenced a couple posts ago stated pretty much the same thing...Google does just about the best job of separating the pd.-for sites from the search engine returns, but there are still a few search engines out there that are mucking up the results.

I've heard/read a lot about how easy (and free!) Froogle is, but still have my eyes and ears open as to whether or not it is bringing in sales.

Thanks for sharing!
Zuzu

P.S. - I shared what you posted regarding orders for items no longer offered (cached files) on another forum - they were glad to have the "mystery" solved!

[Casual Cottage]

Hello,
I know that I'm getting in late on this thread, but I'll tell you what I have found. I could not get my website listed on Google for anything! I tried the pay per click and got alot of visitors....but it's very costly. You can budget your daily amount which helps. Although I was getting alot of traffic, I wasn't getting alot of sales from it. I stopped my Google advertising altogether in early December. I signed up on a website called statcounter.com. You can sign up for free. You add a small bit of html to your web pages that they provide and then you can view your web stats, like who is visiting (area of country or world), if they come from a link, they will list the link, which browser, how long they stay, what pages they visit, etc. I find that I get alot of visitors from Yahoo, but I also find that the best advertising seems to be from the other websites that I have traded links with. I try to be very careful about linking only to quality sites that compliment and many times, compete with my site. Statcounter will tell you which visitors are coming to you from your links. I find that I am not getting as many visitors to the site as I was when I paid for clicks through Google, but I am getting more quality visits that turn in to sales. I don't know if my site will ever be able to compete on Google, but there are alot of people out there using other search engines.

Sorry this is so wordy, but thought it might help those of you who have websites.

[zuzus_garden]

I just noticed today that this thread had 'disappeared' into the database depths. So, I went searching for it to find statcounter.com - the site that Marilyn posted about. Newbies may not know that this was ever here. :(

Rex - Is there a way to keep this and other important Cottage Industry threads from "going away" even if there hasn't been a recent post?

I'm sure this topic will be brought up again, and since there is good information here already, couldn't we keep 'Internet Marketing and Advertising' as a permanent forum thread?

Thanks,
Zuzu

[Kathy Ann]

Thank Zu. I hadn't been here in a while so I missed that message entirely.

[zuzus_garden]

Hi Kathy Ann - Love your avatar - very classy lady. Hope your Holiday sales were great. Visit more often!

Hi Marilyn - you said Sorry this is so wordy, but thought it might help those of you who have websites. and I just wanted to say, thank you, it did help!!!! Haven't seen you here for awhile either...come chat!
Zuzu

[Cottage Collections]

Well... I tried froogle and haven't heard back yet. I guess they're inundated with requests. How long does everyone usually wait?
I'm really frustrated with the search engines myself. I was on page 1 of google forever and dropped completely out. No rhyme or reason for the drop and I've been working to try and get back up there without any luck. I was seriously considering doing a pay per click but hear so much about click fraud.

I'm also reading something new about an include file that we can put up in our root directory. If I get it finished and it seems like something that would be helpful I'll come back and post it here.

Happy Monday Everyone! :o

[Kathy Ann]

It takes a week or two for Froogle to answer questions. I have been using them for a long time, is there a question I can answer for you?

A belated thank you Zuzu, for your kind words about my avatar. The dolls are so much fun to make!

[Cottage Collections]

It takes a week or two for Froogle to answer questions. I have been using them for a long time, is there a question I can answer for you?


Thanks Kathy Ann. I did finally hear back from froogle. Boy... is it as complicated as it sounds? Did you purchase sofware for your data feed files or do them yourself?

[Kathy Ann]

It definitely sounds more complicated than it is! You shouldn't have to buy software. I think there a couple of alternative methods in the pdf instructions that they email you. I chose the Microsoft Excel option because my computer at the time had it installed.

The instructions tell you how to create a file that is just a list with the name of the item, some of the text from its page on your website, the price, and a photo. This is where the money I spent on Google adwords really came in handy, because you may only choose one name for each item and this will be the keyword. In other words, I could not have quilts listed under "baby quilt" AND "memory quilt." I had to choose one so I checked my Google adwords file to see which keyword had been used the most often. (It was baby quilt)

Once you create a file according to their instructions, you go to their ftp site. A blank page shows up and you drag your file into it. Then it just sits there and you have to trust that they got it. In a few days they will email you with any corrections that need to be made. They had to email me because I used text that was not on the webpage.

The ftp does not work in Netscape.

You have to send your feeds at least once a month or your item will drop out of their system. You can send corrected feeds as often as you want.

Good luck! I think if it ever takes off, it will be a great tool.

[Casual Cottage]

Thanks Kathy Ann. I did finally hear back from froogle. Boy... is it as complicated as it sounds? Did you purchase sofware for your data feed files or do them yourself?

I looked at Froogle quite awhile back and I felt just like you, Joyce. It looked complicated and time consuming. Maybe I'll try it now, since Kathy Ann can guide me. ;) Kathy Ann, your instructions look alot better than theirs! Thanks.

[Kathy Ann]

Awww shucks:o

[Cottage Collections]

That's the truth! Your instructions are really helpful Kathy Ann! They didn't send me the instructions you got! :rolleyes: I am going to try and clear an afternoon to figure it all out. Especially if it helps increase my rankings. When I'm as busy as I have been lately I tend to read fast, miss vital info and get frustrated more easily. I need to just remember why I need to take the time and figure this out!

Thanks for the helpful info.

[Kathy Ann]

Joyce, did you get a .pdf file from them? If not I will send you mine. The last 3 things, about the blank page, your file just sitting there and not working in Netscape, I had to figure out for myself.

[Cottage Collections]

Joyce, did you get a .pdf file from them? If not I will send you mine. The last 3 things, about the blank page, your file just sitting there and not working in Netscape, I had to figure out for myself.

I didn't! I wonder why?? They just said to submit a datafeed file. :( Thanks for offering to send me yours! I appreciate it. Maybe then I'll be able to figure out what I should be doing.
You know... I'm sure if I had a ton of time I could figure it out. I've heard really good things about it. I'm just so swamped these days. I work 18-20 hrs a day on this computer and move from one deadline to the next. Someday when I grow up I'm gonna have a life! :D

Thanks for the help Kathy Ann!

[Kathy Ann]

Joyce, you should have that in your email now.

[Cottage Collections]

Thank You Kathy Ann! I appreciate the info.

If I can ever help you with anything.. just let me know.

[thepetquarter]

I just received the email from Froogle myself. I am waiting to log into my ftp account and I'm going to try to upload the feed. Fortunately the cart I use had a "Froogle Feed", so we'll see if that works.

I think it will really be neat if this works!

[thepetquarter]

Oh my goodness! My eyes are crossed! After submitting my feed to Froogle, I had tons of errors. I think I've fixed them all and just resubmitted. How long does it usually take to see the new one show up?

Kathy - My froogle feed lists only 15 out of 99 successful. I just uploaded another feed. It seems that my main erroer is too few tabs. Things look okay to me when I view it in Excel. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[greenoak]

:) kathy ann , how do you use froogle? what is it? is it working?

we just started on amazon with our knobs....but whats froogle?
we have bombed on ruby lane and ebay stores...but always ready to try something else..
thanks


ann

www.greenoakantiques.com

[Kathy Ann]

Ann, go to the Google home page and you will see a line of links... one of them is Froogle. It's for people who are shopping and want to exclude anything else from their search. Brilliant idea but hasn't caught on yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Last week I bought a butterfly house using Froogle - I don't think I would have found what I wanted in Google! It's free to list there.

[greenoak]

so you are just trying to use it as a buyer? not a seller?

im asking because i could have my webmeister look on there and offer our pictures and knobs....we have been on a few internet things that didnt pan out so i dont want to just do the work for nothing...duds for us...ruby lane.... ebay stores...tias...
good for us.. our store and ebay...we have a 3500 feedback rating but its getting harder...

im not used to reading the posts backwards...and now i have seen your earlier posts ...wondering if i should learn all this... ...thanks
ann

[Kathy Ann]

Both! I have a listing there for each product line, and I shop there as well.

[thepetquarter]

Hi Kathy,

I finally got the feed to go through with "success with errors". All of my products have been accepted, but I'm waiting for approval.

How long did it take for yours to go live?

[Kathy Ann]

I think it was about a week. It needed corrections so it was about another week beyond that. Once you get your feed to look like how they want it to look, it's very easy and painless to make changes whenever you feel like it without having to go thru tech support.

[greenoak]

thanks melissa ...im going to have my webmeister look into froogle....we have one category priced and ready for shipping on our site.....

sounds like you are saying that could be on froogle??
im such a teck dud but she can figure it out..

ann at greenoak


www.greenoakantiques.com

[greenoak]

kathy ann, did i read you right that auctionfire is free? why would they do that....

thanks for the info


ann of greenoak

www.greenoakantiques.com

[thepetquarter]

I'm finally on Froogle!

So my question is, when I have new products to add, should I just add them to the same excel document and send that feed? I am assuming the order doesn't matter or do I have to group certain categories together?

I am guessing it's pretty seamless now and once it's accepted it will appear without the seamingly endless lag time, right?

Thanks Kathy Ann!

Cherie

[Kathy Ann]

Ann, my guess is because they sell ads on their site. there's even an ad for Ebay on their home page!

Cherie, I just add new product lines to the notepad document and then drag the whole file into the ftp window. You have to do it once a month anyway or your items will be deleted. I was fooling with the tab button and it seems like there are definite fields for each element so I try to keep them lined up. Also, if you upload, you can't do it again for several hours. I have an email query in to them because lately it's not asking for my password, but my items are getting on. That doesn't seem right to me.

[greenoak]

:cool: i had this installed today and what fun....it gives lots of analysis of hits on the site.... its www.statcounter.com does anyone else have this....? what do you do with the info?....it was so neat...most came from google and over half stayed under 5seconds.....im hoping to learn more about what keywords are working.....


ann

www.greenoakantiques.com

[Casual Cottage]

Hi Ann! I've used Statcounter for quite some time. I think it gives such good information on what is working for you and what isn't. One of the nice things is that it shows you what hits you're receiving from your link partners. If you use the graph, it gives you very good information what days and time of days you are receiving the most traffic. Make sure you put the html code on each page of your website that you want to track. Have fun with it!

[greenoak]

:cool: more statcounter;;;;

i think our pages are working pretty good....and the html is on each page....we are on the first page of google for all kinds of things...

i think we are trying to do 2 things, 1.. bring in regional buyers...thats working.once in a while.. and 2.. sell on line , thats not working ...

from statcounter i can see the huge majority of hits are from people who wont be buying anything....they are hitting us on
our core things ... cupboards, beds, barnwood, garden, iron, shabby wholesale... etc etc.....we might even have what they would want ...but they are too far away ...and we dont ship...and why are we getting so many hits? because the words are on so many pages ? should i sprinkle the words referring to the thingsi want to sell on all the pages...this cupboard would look good with a rose picture etc etc... just dont know...

...and then the things we do choose to ship, and have for sale on the site, shabby rose pictures, glass knobs, mc call candles etc.... those things arent getting hits...


so how to figure? is there no demand for those things or are they just not getting picked up as well as our main things? i could pump up the things i want to sell....if it seemed worth it...

almost all our views are from google...and i can see wherere they like to look......
.
i dont know any benchmarks either...out of 100 views what do you get?
this is such new information im kind of in a fuddle... any ideas?
ann



....